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Panel II—Focal Disciplines

The three presentations in Panel II addressed the status of women in higher education and the workforce in the three focal disciplines: chemical sciences, computer science, and mathematics and statistics. The first presentation by Robert Lichter, a principal at Merrimack Consultants, LLC, focused on the chemical sciences. He found that the percentages of women earning baccalaureate degrees in the chemical sciences were similar in Germany, the United Kingdom, and the United States. For Germany and the United Kingdom, women’s representations on the faculty were also similar. He noted that comparable U.S. data were unavailable. In the United Kingdom, Lichter reported that female graduate students were less likely than their male colleagues to indicate plans to pursue a career in the chemical sciences.

Following the above presentation, Joanne Cohoon, associate professor at the Department of Science, Technology, and Society at the University of Virginia, discussed the status of women in computer science, focusing primarily on the baccalaureate degree. She addressed the participation of women in computer science compared with their overall participation in higher education in a variety of countries. Her examination of women’s participation in the computing workforces showed recent decline in India, Spain, and the United States. She concluded that women’s participation in computer science may be linked to cultural stereotypes about gender.

The final presentation by Keith Crank, the research and graduate education manager at the American Statistical Association, and Ingrid Daubechies, professor at Duke University and president of the International Mathematical Union, concentrated on women in graduate education and the workforce in mathematics and statistics. Crank noted that European women earned roughly half of the graduate degrees compared with approximately 40 percent of women in the United States. He found gender differences in subdisciplines, females being more likely than males to be in statistics. In terms of the academic workforce, Crank reported that women were better represented on the faculties of master- and bachelor-level institutions. Daubechies spoke further on the challenges of motivating women to join the mathematics and statistics fields and suggested methods of debunking the myths associated with those disciplines.



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3 Panel II--Focal Disciplines The three presentations in Panel II addressed the status of women in higher education and the workforce in the three focal disciplines: chemical sciences, computer science, and mathematics and statistics. The first presentation by Robert Lichter, a principal at Merrimack Consultants, LLC, focused on the chemical sciences. He found that the percentages of women earning baccalaureate degrees in the chemical sciences were similar in Germany, the United Kingdom, and the United States. For Germany and the United Kingdom, women's representations on the faculty were also similar. He noted that comparable U.S. data were unavailable. In the United Kingdom, Lichter reported that female graduate students were less likely than their male colleagues to indicate plans to pursue a career in the chemical sciences. Following the above presentation, Joanne Cohoon, associate professor at the Department of Science, Technology, and Society at the University of Virginia, discussed the status of women in computer science, focusing primarily on the baccalaureate degree. She addressed the participation of women in computer science compared with their overall participation in higher education in a variety of countries. Her examination of women's participation in the computing workforces showed recent decline in India, Spain, and the United States. She concluded that women's participation in computer science may be linked to cultural stereotypes about gender. The final presentation by Keith Crank, the research and graduate education manager at the American Statistical Association, and Ingrid Daubechies, professor at Duke University and president of the International Mathematical Union, concentrated on women in graduate education and the workforce in mathematics and statistics. Crank noted that European women earned roughly half of the graduate degrees compared with approximately 40 percent of women in the United States. He found gender differences in subdisciplines, females being more likely than males to be in statistics. In terms of the academic workforce, Crank reported that women were better represented on the faculties of master- and bachelor-level institutions. Daubechies spoke further on the challenges of motivating women to join the mathematics and statistics fields and suggested methods of debunking the myths associated with those disciplines. 15

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16 BLUEPRINT FOR THE FUTURE 3.1 Chemical Sciences1 Robert Lichter Merrimack Consultants, LLC Lichter first thanked his colleagues for their contributions, including Willie Pearson, Jr., Janet Bryant, Lisa J. Borello, and other individuals who were not present but who had contributed to the presentation. Lichter began his presentation with a motivating argument as to why women in the chemical sciences warranted focused attention. The progress of women in the field lags behind men worldwide with respect to pay, promotion, and advancement to positions of leadership--a critical driver of change. The chemical sciences are often embedded in other disciplines and work settings, and are a key component of a country's ability to maintain global competitiveness. In spite of the highly competitive nature of the field, significant fractions of the population should not be excluded as a potential workforce. Thus, recruitment, retention, and advancement of women in the chemical sciences are critical to all nations. Robust and reliable data exist for participation of women in chemical sciences in a variety of countries, which are essential for understanding the slow progress of women in the chemical sciences via cross-national and cross-cultural comparisons. Such data are especially critical for creating policies that can advance women in the chemical sciences and, ultimately, to positions of leadership. Lichter presented data on the percentage of degrees earned by women at the undergraduate and doctoral levels in Germany, the United Kingdom, and the United States. These data showed no significant differences among the three countries: women earned 40-50 percent of the undergraduate degrees and approximately 40 percent of the doctoral degrees. However, looking at women faculty, the percentages dropped to 11 and 12 percent for Germany and the United Kingdom, respectively. Lichter offered survey data on the career plans of 650 female and male doctoral students in their first and third years of graduate studies (Table 3-1). The results showed that male students' career aspirations were reinforced as they progressed through their studies, so that the percentage of men planning to pursue a career in chemistry increased from 73 to 86 percent between their first and third years, while a substantial drop occurred among women planning careers in chemical sciences, from 85 to 79 percent. When comparing planned careers in academia or research careers in the chemical sciences, both men and women showed decreased interest in these career paths between their first and third years. The largest drop, from 72 to 37 percent, was observed for women planning research careers, while the drop for men was only 61 to 59 percent. 1 See Appendix E-5 for the full paper.

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FOCAL DISCIPLINES 17 TABLE 3-1. Career Choices of Men and Women in the U.K. Chemical Sciences Graduate Programs (in percentage) Men Women 1st Year 3rd Year 1st Year 3rd Year Planning career in chemistry 73 86 85 79 Planning research in chemistry 61 59 72 37 Planning academic career 44 36 51 33 SOURCE: Royal Society of Chemistry. 2008. Change of Heart: Career Intentions and the Chemistry Ph.D. London, U.K.: Royal Society of Chemistry. To understand these trends qualitatively, Lichter quoted a U.K. female graduate student about her sense of isolation and concern about a lack of appreciation in the field. He indicated that these themes are common in the United States as well. The fundamental issue is one of perceptions about possible career choices which are embedded within an environment that is often not seen as welcoming to women. Finally, Lichter highlighted the lack of disaggregated international data. In many instances, The largest drop, from 72 to 37 chemistry is not explicitly considered its own field but percent, was observed for included more generally with other physical sciences, women planning research possibly due to varying definitions of chemistry across careers (in chemistry), while sectors and countries. Frequently data are unavailable, the drop for men was only 61 to particularly from nonacademic sectors, especially industry. 59 percent. Also, data on program outcomes are sparse; in Germany, for example, there are many industrial sector programs Robert Lichter between employers and unions that are intended to promote women in chemistry. At the time of the workshop, Lichter and his colleagues had been unable to obtain information on outcomes of these initiatives, which prompted Lichter and his coauthors to expand their data collection efforts to other countries, examining cross-national similarities and differences within chemical sciences compared to other disciplines. 3.2 Computer Science2 Joanne Cohoon University of Virginia Cohoon presented data on entry-level degrees (bachelor's degrees) and workforce trends in a few selected countries to address the question: How similar or different is women's representation in computer science from one country or culture to another? Cohoon presented Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development data from 33 countries on the percentage of women who earned bachelor's level degrees in computer science in 2008, as shown in Figure 3-1. Women were underrepresented in computer science at the bachelor's level in 33 countries, although the data showed tremendous variation among countries. Slovenia 2 See Appendix E-6 for the full paper.

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18 BLUEPRINT FOR THE FUTURE exhibited the lowest relative representation of women at approximately 7 percent, and Greece reported comparatively high representation of women at approximately 40 percent. Cohoon argued that an analysis of the percentage of women in computer science should take into account the variation across countries in women's overall participation in higher education. She normalized the data by calculating the mean and standard deviation for women's representation in all disciplines in a country; then she compared these calculations with women's representation in computer science (Figure 3-2). The result showed how the representation of women in computer science varied from their representation in all higher education disciplines in each country. In every case, women's participation in computer science lagged behind their participation in higher education, although high variations among countries existed. For example, women's representation in computer science in Turkey (24 percent) varied little from their overall presence in higher education, while in Estonia their 26 percent share of the computer science degrees was notably below all higher education disciplines in the country. Percent Women Among First-Tertiary Degrees in Computer Science, 2008 FIGURE 3-1. Women's Representation in Computing Varies across Countries SOURCE: Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development Education Database. "Computer Science: Cross-National View of Entry Degree and IT Workforce in Selected Countries," presented by Joanne Cohoon at the Blueprint for the Future: Framing the Issues of Women in Science in a Global Context Workshop.

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FOCAL DISCIPLINES 19 # S tudents Slovenia 3605 Switzerland 4511 Belgium 5054 Netherlands 7998 Iceland 3507 Chile 4168 Slovak Republic 4829 Czech Republic 5584 Norway 4679 Germany 18208 France 16770 Italy 7290 3449 Austria 5470 Portugal 7270 Poland 19757 Canada 8474 Brazil 18226 United Kingdom 23408 Spain 10823 United States 51043 Australia 16762 Hungary 5895 Korea 12406 New Zealand 4846 Denmark 4407 Turkey 5646 Israel 4403 Estonia 3780 Sweden 4480 Finland 4693 Mexico 20912 Greece 4123 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 S tandard Deviation FIGURE 3-2. Women's Share of Tertiary Computing Degrees as Deviation Below Mean Discipline, 2006-2007 SOURCE: Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development Education Database. "Computer Science: Cross-National View of Entry Degree and IT Workforce in Selected Countries," presented by Joanne Cohoon at the Blueprint for the Future: Framing the Issues of Women in Science in a Global Context Workshop. Turning to the workplace, Cohoon described the participation of women in the computing workforce in Brazil, India, Spain, and the United States. In 2009, women comprised approximately 57 percent of the total U.S. workforce but only 30 to 35 percent of the U.S. computing workforce. In addition, the overall percentage of women in U.S. computing occupations declined between 2000 and 2009. Similar decreases were observed in Spain. Figure 3-3 illustrates women's representation in occupations that required a bachelor's level degree (but not necessarily in computing). Overall, women's representation in computing professions declined from 24 percent to 20 percent between 2000 and 2009. Interestingly, this was at a time when women comprised 65 percent of the entire labor force in Spain. Cohoon noted that women's entry into the labor force in Spain is a relatively recent change; in 2000, women were significantly less well represented.

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20 BLUEPRINT FOR THE FUTURE 30.0 Computing professionals 25.0 (213) 20.0 Computing associate professionals (312) 15.0 Optical and electronic 10.0 equipment operators (313) 5.0 Electrical and electronic equipment mechanics and fitters (724) 0.0 2002 2009 FIGURE 3-3. Women's Share of Spanish Computing Profession, 2002 and 2009 NOTE: Numbers in parentheses stand for International Standard Classification of Occupation Category Code. SOURCE: Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development data in "Computer Science: Cross-National View of Entry Degree and IT Workforce in Selected Countries," presented by Joanne Cohoon at the Blueprint for the Future: Framing the Issues of Women in Science in a Global Context Workshop. Similar data for Brazil in 2006 indicated that women comprised 20 percent of the computing workforce compared with their overall workforce participation of 42 percent--and 43 percent at the executive position level. In India, data based on a survey of 45 companies revealed that in 2008, women held 36 percent of technical positions in computing professions (although Cohoon noted that some debate exists in the reporting of that number). The number constitutes 3.6 percent of the total female Indian workforce employed in professional- and technical-related positions, similar to the 3.9 percent of the Indian male workforce employed in the same field. Cohoon concluded her presentation by hypothesizing that the representation of women in computer science may be linked to variations in cultural stereotypes about gender. She posed some questions for additional research: What does it mean to be masculine or feminine in a culture? What stereotypes are there about an occupation and how closely is it aligned with characteristics that are masculine or feminine? In cultures with more essentialist beliefs about men and women (that is, women are close to nature and men are analytical and unemotional), those cultural stereotypes are more likely to align technical and computing occupations to masculine characteristics, leading to an underrepresentation of women. Attention should be paid to how social structures in a country may either facilitate or inhibit those stereotypes.

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FOCAL DISCIPLINES 21 3.3 Mathematics and Statistics Keith Crank American Statistical Association, and Ingrid Daubechies Duke University and International Mathematical Union Crank focused his presentation on graduate degrees, because many jobs in mathematics and In Europe, the percentage of statistics require at least a master's degree. He female graduate degree recipients presented U.S. and Eurostat data comparing all in mathematics and statistics is (European Union) EU-15 nations, EU-27 nations, and higher than the percentage 3 the United States. In 2005-2008, approximately 50 enrolled, while the opposite is the percent of the graduate degrees in Europe were case in the United States. awarded to women compared with about 40 percent in the United States. Keith Crank Similar rates were found in female graduate student participation in the EU-15, the EU- 27, and the United States. In 2008, a large number of U.S. students pursued graduate degrees in mathematics and statistics, with women accounting for 40 percent of these graduate students. But U.S. women dropped out of mathematics graduate school programs at a higher rate than men. Figure 3-4 shows the percentage of women among overall graduate degree recipients in all fields and among students enrolled in graduate programs in mathematics and statistics in the United States compared with the EU-27. In the EU-27, the percentage of female degree recipients is consistently higher than that of women enrolled in mathematics and statistics. Except for 2008, the opposite is the case for the United States. What is Europe doing differently that allows more female students to graduate? Crank hypothesized that this variance may be due to different distributions of women in subdisciplines of mathematics and statistics in Europe as compared to the United States. 3 The specific subset of European Union countries constituting the EU-15 are Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, and the United Kingdom. The EU-27 include those countries listed in the EU-15 as well as Bulgaria, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia.

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22 BLUEPRINT FOR THE FUTURE 55 50 Female Percent Euro27 Degrees 45 Euro 27 Student Enrollment US Degrees 40 US Student Enrollment 35 2005 2006 2007 2008 Year FIGURE 3-4. Comparison of Percentages of Females in Total Student Enrollment with Females in Total Students Who Earned Degrees, 2005-2008 SOURCE: European Commission. Eurostat, 2005-2008. Crank also presented data from the American Mathematical Society (AMS) on the number of male and female Ph.D. students who earned their degrees in the various subdisciplines of mathematics and statistics, arranged in six groups (Figure 3-5). Males represented the majority in all subdisciplines although nearly half of the degrees in statistics and biostatistics (Group IV) were awarded to women. He speculated that this finding may explain the higher percentage of females awarded graduate degrees in mathematics in Europe, where EU-27 countries as a whole might produce a higher percentage of statistics degrees than the United States.

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FOCAL DISCIPLINES 23 Female Male 400 350 Number of 300 Doctoral 250 Degrees Granted 200 150 100 50 0 Group Group Group Group Group Group I (Pu) I (Pr) II III IV Va FIGURE 3-5. Gender of Mathematics and Statistics U.S. Doctoral Recipients by Subdiscipline NOTE: Group I includes 48 doctoral programs in mathematics with quality scores in the 3.00-5.00 range, as determined by the 1995 National Research Council ratings (Pu Public, Pr Private).4 Group II is composed of 56 mathematics programs with scores in the 2.00-2.99 range. Group III contains the remaining U.S. departments reporting a mathematics doctoral program. Group IV contains doctoral programs in statistics, biostatistics, and biometrics. Group V contains doctoral programs in applied mathematics and applied science. SOURCE: Cleary, R., J. W. Maxwell, and C. Rose. 2011. Preliminary Report on the 2009-2010 New Doctoral Recipients. Notices Am. Math. Soc. 58 (Feb. 2011):294. Reprinted with permission of the American Mathematical Society. Finally, Crank described the participation of women as faculty members in mathematics and applied mathematics (Groups I, II, III, and V above). Table 3-2 shows the percentage of full-time tenured and tenure-track female faculty in these fields. At all degree levels, women's representation has improved slightly since 2002. 4 National Research Council. 1995. Research-Doctorate Programs in the United States: Continuity and Change. Washington, D.C.: National Academies Press.

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24 BLUEPRINT FOR THE FUTURE TABLE 3-2. Number and Percent of Full-time Tenured and Tenure-track Female Faculty in Mathematics and Applied Mathematics by Level of Highest Degree, 2002-2009 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 Doctoral programs Number 5616 5559 5604 5686 5668 5709 5666 5834 Percent 10 10 11 11 12 12 13 13 Master's only programs Number 3188 3005 3113 3351 3400 3325 3403 3208 Percent 22 22 23 24 25 25 26 27 NOTE: Doctoral programs include those in Groups I, II, III, and V (see note in Figure 4-5). Master's only programs consist of U.S. programs granting a master's degree as the highest graduate degree. Bachelor's only programs include all U.S. programs granting a baccalaureate degree only. SOURCE: Cleary, R., J. W. Maxwell, and C. Rose. 2011. Annual Survey of the Mathematical Sciences in the U.S. (Third Report). Notices Am. Math. Soc. 57 (Nov. 2010):1309. Reprinted with permission of the American Mathematical Society. Crank then turned the presentation over to Daubechies, who discussed the International Mathematical Union's concerns with mathematics education at all levels and its interest in recruiting young people, particularly women, to the field at an earlier age. Daubechies was the director of a program for women in mathematics at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton University, which has a number of initiatives intended to improve the situation for women in the field. She noted that the other speakers addressed the need to gather data and offered some theories for the slow progress of women in science. One does not need to understand the phenomenon to make change. While other fields in the sciences have experienced increased representation of women, Daubechies said, the situation for women in mathematics has not changed much over the years. The "leaking pipeline" problem is compounded in Europe (except Germany) by the inability to attract young people in general. She attributed Germany's success to its outreach efforts, including the sponsorship of an international congress of mathematics, where outreach helped increase the numbers of both women and men in mathematics. She added that emphasizing mathematics as more of an interesting human endeavor seemed to attract more women and young people to the field. Daubechies asserted that women are frequently told that a scientific career is challenging but rewarding. But young women want to know more about women's careers in mathematics and statistics: Is the work environment enjoyable? Can they make difference in the world? Can they earn a good income? A broader approach in designing activities to engage young women in mathematics is needed. Daubechies concluded by mentioning different global activities, such as a math Olympiad in Europe, intended to increase the interest in mathematics among girls, and efforts by other European nations to conduct studies on the gender gap in the sciences.

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FOCAL DISCIPLINES 25 3.4 Panel Discussion Bradley Miller, director, Office of International Activities at the American Chemical Society (ACS), began his presentation by describing several occasions at ACS meetings where he found a "borderless" character to the conduct of research, education, and the practice of chemistry and chemical engineering. He pointed out that young chemical scientists regularly traverse geographic boundaries and that increasingly the country of citizenship, birth, and residence are easily confounded. The ACS International Experiences for Undergraduates, for example, takes students from the United States for a 10-week experience in Europe. Since the program started in 2007, there has been an increase in the number of participants, especially among women (from 40 percent in 2007 to 70 percent in 2011). Given this increased mobility and increased women's participation in international research experiences or study abroad programs, Miller posed a number of questions: What is the role of the international experience or study abroad programs? How do they accelerate or hinder productivity and the professional development of women? The ACS program suggests interesting horizontal issues, where students are finding ways to move across borders worldwide and forgo the traditional nation-based training. The question becomes, What is the impact of such training? Miller then commented on the points raised by Lichter and Daubechies concerning the measurement of impact. Although there are traditional ways to measure scientific productivity, such as manuscripts, citations, patents, and research funding, there are other creative ways to identify impact and success. He recommended measures of mentoring participation, awards and recognition, and leadership in professional associations. There are nontraditional measures of how success in the sciences should be noted. Allan Fisher, vice president at Laureate Education, Inc., focused on two threads. The first addressed Cohoon's presentation, which suggested a link between gender and cultural impacts on society. Another set of factors in that equation is the dictum: "Follow the money." This is related to Anneke Sengers' observation about women having choices in economically privileged environments. In computer science, for example, although women in the United States are underrepresented, a disproportionate number of women in the field are from developing countries studying abroad. Fisher's research revealed that many women from developing countries perceived fewer options than the women who began and finished their studies in the United States. The second theme Fisher addressed stemmed from something he initially learned from Mary Frank Fox's research: there is a strong correlation between the economic status of a profession and its gender balance. Across nations in Latin America, for example, there is a correlation between the economic development status of the nation and the status of females in some of professions. Fisher also suggested that the perception of quality of life is potentially coupled with the issue of economic choice. This idea presents challenges to institutions, whether universities or corporations or the profession itself: What does the career offer to all the perspective joiners and persisters? Fisher argued that when employers anguish over the shortage of supply of workers, they may find that the shortage is often related to quality of life, worklife balance, attractiveness, or difficulty earning tenure in that profession. He concluded that as much attention should be paid to the supply side as to the demand side of the problem.

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26 BLUEPRINT FOR THE FUTURE 3.5 Question and Answer Comments Discussion Following Lichter Remarks An audience participant referenced the survey data of women and men doctoral students in the United Kingdom and the drop in female students who were interested in pursuing careers in chemistry (Table 3-1), asking how much of the decline reflects a lack of role models. Lichter clarified that the data were extracted from a single survey from a larger report, which indicated that respondents reported a lack of feedback from advisors. Also, the structure of doctoral study may have contributed to a sense of isolation. In Britain, unlike the United States, students work independently and often are not part of a research group, so they may not have a sense of community. The women perceive that no one is there for them. Anneke Sengers from the InterAmerican Network of Academies of Sciences suggested that the worklife balance is a great luxury for women in developed countries. She clarified that women in developed countries now have choices. Perhaps such a woman can work half-time or has a husband to support her. Women in developing countries generally work all day and as long as they have light, whether or not they have kids. If they do have children, they tie them to their backs so that they can be out in the fields. They do not have a choice. She asked, "Is it an abundance of choice that is doing our women scientists in?" Lichter agreed that the issue of worklife balance relates to the issue of choice versus environment and culture. He added that this issue of competing demands has been, to some extent, addressed by fellowship programs for students and young faculty that allow them to be paid while dealing with personal obligations. Discussion Following Cohoon Remarks Rebecca Taylor, senior adviser in innovation and entrepreneurship, Office of the Science and Technology Adviser to the Secretary in the U.S. Department of State, asked for clarification on the U.S. data. Cohoon responded that she provided the total number of students who earned bachelor's degrees in the United States; the numbers have fluctuated over the years. Taylor suggested that it would be interesting to track graduates at their first job and then 5 and 10 years later, which might provide insights into how career choices are made vis--vis the total number of men and women working in the field. Cohoon responded that tracking cohorts is very difficult to implement because of limited data; few studies examine the production of Ph.D.s and transitions to academic careers. She is interested in following degree trends at both the undergraduate and graduate levels. She pointed out that in the United States, women's participation at the Ph.D. level has increased, while it has decreased at the bachelor's level. She concluded that it may be much less a pipeline issue and more an issue of changing cultural beliefs over times. Lisa M. Frehill from the National Academies pointed out the existence of data sets that track individuals after they graduate from college. For example, the National Science Foundation's (NSF) Scientists and Engineers Statistical Analysis System (SESTAT) provides cross-sectional data for U.S. scientists and engineers. The NSF's Survey of Doctorate Recipients is a longitudinal component of SESTAT and provides data over time about scientists and engineers who hold doctoral degrees from U.S. colleges and universities. The National Center

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FOCAL DISCIPLINES 27 for Education Statistics' survey program, "Bachelor's and Beyond," is a longitudinal study with data on U.S. college graduates from all fields. Discussion Following Crank Remarks Catherine Didion from the National Academies asked whether professional associations and researchers count or define the presented disciplines differently across countries. Crank responded that the AMS probably counts differently than other countries, which can affect cross- national data analysis. He added that the statistics profession in the United States has been working hard and long to convince the public that they are not mathematicians. Crank explained that, in the United Kingdom, statistics is usually within a department of mathematics but that students in these countries go on to become research statisticians of some prominence. Discussion Following Panel Discussion Zakya Kafafi of NSF commented on the metrics cited during Daubechies' presentation, in which she showed data from the Association for Women in Mathematics. Although the Institute for Advanced Study started in 1994, the data shown were only from 2000 and 2006; Kafafi added it would be interesting to follow the careers of women to best monitor their progress. Daubechies agreed and said the challenge is to prove that the Institute made a difference. She said that she needed comparative data that included career outcomes of those who completed and did not complete the Institute program. Kafafi suggested that progress alone would be good indicator. Frehill added that Daubechies should use the longitudinal data in the Survey of Doctorate Recipients from NSF. Kaye Husbands Fealing, from the Committee on National Statistics at the National Academies, pointed out that there is some literature that follows cohorts over time, which could provide an appropriate model. She suggested that it is useful to think about what is coming down the road in terms of the demand for new areas of exploration in the sciences and then think about what should be the share of women in these areas. She observed that the previous presentations did not mention wage and salary. Fealing said that she is interested in examining critical degree-level transitions (B.S. to M.S. to Ph.D.), especially focusing on the ebbs and flows of percentages of women and men. This issue raises questions about the experimental side, the nominal impact of wage and salary, and how that affects women's participation. Lichter thanked Miller for raising the issue of evaluation. He explained that the measurement of impact is an undercurrent of the chemical sciences research team's work. He argued that there is a tendency to confuse outputs with outcomes and called for more research on outcomes and impact.

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