them. I think it is the opportunity to really get in and be an important part of what goes on, rather than be a member of a huge team. It is a good thing that we should not discourage.

Finally, I want to quote the conversation that I had yesterday with one of the top scientists in the United Kingdom, without identifying him, although I will say that he occupies one of the best-known professorships at one of the best-known universities. He pointed out that he thought the model was changing now and that it seemed that universities are driving much of the innovation, as opposed to companies. There is a lot of truth to that, and it affects the question of how cooperation with industry should affect research. What do students get trained to do? Do you let them talk about it? How do you patent it? are all increasingly difficult questions connected with trying to get students to work on real-world problems.

Edel Wasserman: To some degree, universities have always been the source of innovation. The difficulty and the opportunity are that the university has become more entrepreneurial. Some of the people who might have been good candidates for industrial research are now faculty with their own research groups, and they have started one or more companies on the side. Very good things are coming out of that. It also means that some of the critical reasons for industrial research are being transferred out of industry. You have to ask, what is the job market going to be for students in some segments of industry if this continues on for many years?

James S. Nowick, University of California, Irvine: Your comment about the good to very good students resonated with me. It is easy to get in the habit of sorting students, like eggs, into grade AA, grade A, and so forth, and I think this is a dangerous thing to do.

A student of mine, an undergraduate, was a low B student. When he applied to graduate school, no one accepted him. I believed he had a lot of potential, so I encouraged our program to accept him. He proved to be a bright and successful research scientist and after four years with me had published 10 papers and obtained his Ph.D. When it came time to look for a job, he competed against people who had postdocs and succeeded in winning the position. As a matter of fact, he was hired at DuPont, and I understand that he is doing very well there.



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