Attracting Science and Mathematics Ph.D.s to Secondary School Education (2000)

We also interviewed local and state school administrators and higher education administrators to obtain their perspectives on the opportunities for Ph.D.s in K-12 education and how they believed administrative structures might adjust to facilitate the entry of Ph.D.s into K-12 careers. Interviews were conducted with high school principals (regular public high schools and science and technology magnet schools), school district superintendents, and chief state school officers to obtain information about opportunities for and concerns about employment of Ph.D.s in secondary school teaching. Interviews were also conducted with graduate school deans to ascertain the kinds of programmatic changes in graduate education that might help to prepare Ph.D.s for careers teaching in secondary schools.

Two principals of public high schools were interviewed. Both respondents indicated they did not see science as mathematics Ph.D.s as a source of quality teachers for their high school or in their district. Both respondents believed “teacher preparation” and ability to deal with youth was more important than holding a Ph.D. Both respondents also indicated that salary was an obstacle to attracting Ph.D.s to teaching. Specific responses to interview questions follow.

Response to Interview Questions (N = 2)

1. Do you see recent Ph.D.s as a source of quality science and mathematics teachers in your high school or other high schools in your school district?

   • Both said No.

2. Why or why not?

   • Teachers need to be a quality educator.

   • Ph.D.s don't have the ability to deliver information to students in a way that students are able to use it.

   • Ph.D.s need to be recruited and high schools don't currently need to recruit teachers.

   • Don't think Ph.D.s offer a “leg up” in terms of other teachers.

   • Don't need Ph.D.s to teach high school.

3. What do you see as the advantages of Ph.D.s as secondary school science and mathematics teachers?

   • If teacher trained, can impart knowledge.

   • Enhance school's standing with Middle States evaluation.

• Knowledge of subject matter.

3. What do you see as the disadvantages of Ph.D.s as secondary school science and mathematics teachers?

   • Alternative route to certification is not the way to go.

   • Subject matter knowledge can overspecialize people and impact their ability to teach at the secondary school level.

4. What are the obstacles to attracting and retaining science and mathematics Ph.D.s as secondary school teachers?

Other items mentioned once each:

• Ph.D.s want to do research and be published (can't do this in school environment).

• No resources for research.

• Academics is a socially safe environment while high schools are not.

• Ph.D.s don't usually belong in a high school classroom.

6. Given that funding were available, what incentives or special arrangements have been or could be implemented that would attract science and mathematics Ph.D.s to secondary school teaching?

   • Paid training period to learn teaching strategies and classroom management.

   • Use Ph.D.s to teach advanced placement classes.

   • Use good teachers to teach the worst kids (to get them excited about the subject area).

7. Are any of these already available due to policies implemented by the state, the school district you are in, or your school?

   • Training period to learn teaching strategies and classroom management (mentioned in #6 above) is currently required. New teachers are required to attend summer workshops, but are not paid for this. (N = 1)

8. Which of these could additionally be implemented at the high school level?

One respondent mentioned each of the following:

• Incentives beyond salary.

• Class size and teacher unions are stumbling blocks.

• Salaries need to attract young people to teaching; review the salary steps and match them to industry.

9. What arrangements have been or could be implemented by graduate schools that would facilitate the transition of science and mathematics Ph.D.s to secondary school teaching?

   • Provide teacher preparation (courses).

   • Provide classroom experience and orientation to schools through teaching.

10. Are any of these currently available? Which might be implemented by colleges or universities in your state?

    • Would be willing to discuss.

11. How willing are you to allow a reduced teaching load for Ph.D.s during a training period?

    • Yes, but has financial implications for district.

    • No, because of teacher unions.

12. Are their funds available for teacher training for Ph.D.s?

    • State handles this.

    • Not from individual districts, maybe from state.

    • District handles professional development activities for new teachers and offers professional.

    • Development three times a year for all teachers.

Three principals of specialized science and technology high schools (magnet schools) were interviewed. All three believe that the experience of Ph.D.s with scientific inquiry, experiments, and scientific enterprise are an advantage. However, all three interviewees indicated Ph.D.s needed to be exposed to secondary education, with time working in a school, in order for this to become a viable career option. All three believe a reduced teaching load during a training period would be beneficial. Two respondents mentioned money/salaries as obstacles.

Response to Interview Questions (N = 3)

1. Do you see recent Ph.D.s as a source of quality science and mathematics teachers in your high school or other high schools in your school district?

• Two – Maybe

• One - Yes

2. Why or why not?

Why:

• Attitude and energy.

• Content background.

• Can be a good resource.

Why Not:

• Been in academic world too long.

• Only deal with peers/colleagues.

• Speak own language.

• Must be flexible.

• Must make things relevant, understandable, and comprehensive for students.

• Must be sensitive to student needs.

• Have career goals other than secondary school teaching.

• Must have human relations qualities.

• Must have background in education.

3. What do you see as the advantages of Ph.D.s as secondary school science and mathematics teachers?

Also mentioned were:

• Can institute national standards in science/math.

• Resourceful in getting school grants and additional resources.

• Subject matter perspective.

• Very focused.

4. What do you see as the disadvantages of Ph.D.s as secondary school science and mathematics teachers?

Other items mentioned by respondents included:

• They loose sight of the level kids can achieve.

• They are overspecialized when a generalist is needed.

• Pedagogical difference between high school and college.

• Financial needs.

• Goal is to publish, work in university or private industry, not teach.

• Have to love kids and want to be in their world.

• If goal is elsewhere, will only teach for a short time (2 to 3 years).

• In urban districts, the cost of housing is very high.

5. What are the obstacles to attracting and retaining science and mathematics Ph.D.s as secondary school teachers?

Other items mentioned included:

• You teach kids, not a subject.

• Alternative certification needs to be augmented with mentoring.

• Schools are limited in resources and remain status quo; can't get resources or innovations.

• Often new teachers are given worst teaching assignments.

6. Given that funding were available, what incentives or special arrangements have been or could be implemented that would attract science and mathematics Ph.D.s to secondary school teaching?

Other items mentioned included:

• Create research opportunities through funds.

• Develop relationship between education and science and math departments in universities.

• View teaching as a broader vision.

• Include secondary education as a career option.

• Give graduate students opportunities to visit schools.

• Have salaries sufficient enough so that teachers can travel and renew each summer without financial worries.

7. Are any of these already available due to policies implemented by the state, the school district you are in, or your school?

   • Need support of school board.

   • Need legislative push to do so (with science and math and education departments in universities working together).

   • Not available in state.

   • Doesn't think options are available in state.

8. Which of these could additionally be implemented at the high school level?

   • District may be interested; state probably believes they have enough teachers.

9. What arrangements have been or could be implemented by graduate schools that would facilitate the transition of science and mathematics Ph.D.s to secondary school teaching?

Other mentions included:

• Link education department with science and math departments.

• Require students to do classroom observation.

• Require students to do a classroom internship.

• Help students with tutoring.

• Help teachers with staff development to inspire teachers.

10. Are any of these currently available? Which might be implemented by colleges or universities in your state?

    • Doesn't think any of these are being done.

    • Have made efforts to make connections with individuals within universities in certain departments (such as environmental education).

    • Found instructors at colleges are rigid; students cannot fast track into classroom teaching.

11. How willing are you to allow a reduced teaching load for Ph.D.s during a training period?

All three responded they would be willing to allow a reduced teaching load.

Qualifications made to the statement:

• If you do it for Ph.D.s you must do it for all rookie teachers.

• Had a grant for this, but funding ran out (was specific to science and math teachers). Teachers met with college professor and were mentored.

12. Are their funds available for teacher training for Ph.D.s?

• One person said it was up to the individual seeking certification; another said the school district would pick up a portion of the costs and grants were available for this. The third didn't comment on this issue.

Additional comments:

• When asked for additional information, respondents offered three comments: Ph.D.s need to know teaching is an option for them; people of color are needed as role models in the math and science arenas, especially teaching; and there needs to be small research projects funded at the high school level for students to do independent study.

Response to Interview Questions (N = 3)

1. Do you see recent Ph.D.s as a source of quality science and mathematics teachers for the high schools or middle schools in your school district?

• Two “maybe”

• One yes

2. Why or why not?

Why:

• State assessments require higher levels of content knowledge; important for both kids and in-service to teachers.

• Bring research knowledge.

• Bring subject matter knowledge.

Why Not:

• Not a realistic source.

• Want higher salaries than districts can pay.

• Don't need their level of expertise.

• No practical or theoretical experience for lesson activities in classroom.

• No education training.

3. What do you see as the advantages of Ph.D.s as secondary school science and mathematics teachers?

Also mentioned:

• Can use base of research.

• Can move beyond subject matter.

4. What do you see as the disadvantages of Ph.D.s as secondary school science and mathematics teachers?

   • Specialization when need a breadth of knowledge.

   • Pedagogy and teaching experience lacking.

   • Ability to design interactive lessons not present.

   • Student lessons have to model real world.

5. What are the obstacles to attracting and retaining science and mathematics Ph.D.s as secondary school teachers?

Also mentioned:

• The need for the individual to be a generalist.

• Lack of ability to focus on specialist area of interest.

• Ph.D.s are interested in university or research institute more than secondary school environment.

• Working conditions (no time for reflection or planning)

• Some areas of need (rural) may not have amenities, plus people are generally less educated than Ph.D.

6. Given that funding were available, what incentives or special arrangements have been or could be implemented that would attract science and mathematics Ph.D.s to secondary school teaching? (Note: Items with “*” have already been implemented or are available at some level in the respondent's state.)

   • Partnerships with businesses or universities so Ph.D.s can be involved in schools and still pursue specialized area of interest.

   • Magnet schools, but you don't want to narrow kids' exposure or choices too early.

   • Use Ph.D.s as mentors to students.*

   • Pair them with someone who understands the realities of public schools and have them do curriculum development.

   • Provide release time for training* and for research.

   • Adequate salaries (legislature should increase salaries for Ph.D.s so they remain competitive with business).

   • Summer institutes to prepare Ph.D.s for teaching.

   • Lower teacher loads and improve workplace environment.

7. Are any of these currently available through school district policies? Which of these could be implemented at the school district level?

The release time for teachers is part of a NSF grant program and is only available in certain districts.

Other items mentioned included:

• Some of these things would not become school board policy.

• Some universities might be willing to work with alternative certification.

• Schools have to want the Ph.D.s as much as the Ph.D.s want the school.

• If funding were available, district would be likely to implement these ideas.

8. What arrangements have been or could be implemented by graduate schools that would facilitate the transition of science and mathematics Ph.D.s to secondary school teaching?

The specific comments for this mention included offering scholarships or fellowships to graduate students to spend time in the schools; requiring Ph.D.s to perform internships in the schools; and students should work with schools and real students.

Other items mentioned in response to this question included:

• Fund students who want to look at public education (it's looked down on).

• Have Ph.D.s obtain basic education training while in graduate school.

• Become resources (especially with technology) to teachers in the schools.

9. Are any of these currently available? Which might be implemented by colleges or universities in your state?

   • Respondents were vague about this. They said they didn't know why it wouldn't be done; assume it would be done if resources were there; and stated that universities said they would do these things, but didn't know if they would follow through.

10. How willing do you think schools would be to allow a reduced teaching load for Ph.D.s during a training period?

Other responses included:

• Depends on the funds available.

• Teacher unions are an issue.

• Only accepted if it reduces the load all the way around (across teachers, not specific to Ph.D.s).

• Not sure other teachers would see advantage of having Ph.D.s in classroom (particularly if this was done).

11. Are their funds available at the school district level for teacher training for Ph.D.s?

    • Two responded “yes.”

    • One responded “no.”

    • For the “yes” responses, comments included: not specific to Ph.D.s, funding may be available but not budgeted, and state has program for individuals willing to work in specific poor, rural counties in state.

    • Mentors to other students, to keep them up-to-date and excited about subject content.

    • Serve as in-service specialists, training consultants, and writers for curriculum.

12. Are there other positions in which you would like to see Ph.D.s contribute?

Responses included:

• Work in instructional design, using instructional technology.

Response to Interview Questions (N = 3)

1. Do you see recent Ph.D.s as a source of quality science and mathematics teachers in high schools in your state?

• Two – Yes

• One – No

2. Why or why not?

Why:

• Ph.D.s can help students achieve rigorous core curriculum content standards/state student testing.

• Have content knowledge base and ability to find appropriate information.

• Magnet schools for science and math.

• Enhance student capacity for students achieving at higher levels in science and math.

Why Not:

• They go on to higher level jobs in education.

• Must be good at pedagogy.

3. What do you see as the advantages of Ph.D.s as secondary school science and mathematics teachers?

   • Ph.D.s will bring back respect and professionalism to teachers.

   • Enliven other staff.

   • Content specialists.

   • Advanced level of training and exposure to content knowledge.

   • Additional source from which quality teachers can be found.

4. What do you see as the disadvantages of Ph.D.s as secondary school science and mathematics teachers?

Other disadvantages mentioned by interviewees included:

• Higher level of expectation.

• More demands.

• Won't put up with things.

• Principals are threatened by Ph.D.s.

• System is too difficult.

• Ph.D.s not prepared for problems in classroom.

• No intellectual reflection.

• May not see job as teaching kids.

• Need to know child development, child learning, and teaching.

5. What are the obstacles to attracting and retaining science and mathematics Ph.D.s as secondary school teachers?

Other items mentioned as obstacles included:

• No monetary rewards for advanced education.

• Some personnel (in schools) may feel threatened.

• Working conditions in schools (facilities and equipment).

• No support systems for teachers.

• Disruptive classrooms.

• Little respect.

• “Too many kids and too many preps.”

6. Given that funding were available, what incentives or special arrangements have been or could be implemented that would attract science and mathematics Ph.D.s to secondary school teaching?

   • Time for reflection.

   • Time for research.

   • Academic freedom from curriculum.

   • Opportunities to mentor and network.

   • More funds to pay for alternate certification.

   • Job sharing with private industry or governmental agency.

   • Better salary.

   • Better working conditions.

   • Fewer bureaucratic hoops to go through.

7. Are any of these currently available through state-level policies? Which of these could additionally be implemented at the state level?

One state has several programs for teachers. In one, teachers worked with university professors on a research project to learn scientific inquiry and statistics. The respondent indicated many teachers dropped out because this effort was too demanding. The same state also offers teachers an opportunity to join regional collaboratives. These collaboratives usually focus on a research project each year. One collaborative is helping teachers obtain additional education (but not a hard science and math Ph.D.).

Another state is using grant funds to focus on recruiting teachers, particularly in the eastern seaboard states. Recruitment from colleges and universities includes individuals who would be alternate certification candidates, such as science and math Ph.D.s. Finally, the individual who suggested job sharing indicated this would require state action in order for it to occur.

8. What arrangements have been or could be implemented by graduate schools that would facilitate the transition of science and mathematics Ph.D.s to secondary school teaching?

Other possibilities for graduate schools offered by respondents included:

• Ph.D.s mentoring teachers and providing time for reflection.

• Students participating in a computerized school district job database (to explore job possibilities with the school districts).

• Linking with professional associations, such as school administrators, school principals.

• Coursework in pedagogy.

• Weighting outreach to public schools to be important as research and teaching for tenure.

9. Are any of these currently available? Which might be implemented by colleges or universities in your state?

Respondents were undecided as to whether universities would be willing to implement any of these options. One respondent commented it was “difficult” making linkages with the “pure sciences” within universities. Another respondent indicated some universities would be more willing than others to try new efforts. Finally, in the state where outreach to public schools is already an important component of the state university missions, the respondent felt the emphasis on this component just was not a priority (although the outreach requirement exists).

10. Are their funds available at the state level for teacher training for Ph.D.s?

    • Two – No.

    • One – Don't know.

In one state, teacher collaboratives may assist teachers obtain additional education. This state also requires that individuals pay for certification themselves. In another state, some school districts pay for alternate certification and there is a foundation-sponsored pool of funds available to a few candidates.

11. Are there other positions in which you would like to see Ph.D.s contribute?

The two interviewees who said they use Ph.D.s in an expert capacity were referring to textbook reviews, summits to inform the Department of Education about priorities, and curriculum development reviews.

Other items mentioned by interviewees included:

• Serve as a resource to teachers.

• Provide training through education service centers in state.

• Professional development schools, where college faculty and school faculty work together in training teachers.

Response to Interviews (N = 5)

1. Do you see recent Ph.D.s as a source of quality science and mathematics teachers in high schools [in your state]?

2. Why or why not?

Other reasons why mentioned:

• Research skills.

• Motivation.

Other reasons why not mentioned:

• Training is not adaptable to teaching.

• Don't have teaching as a career goal.

• Foreign students are not a match.

• Need to re-tool graduate schools and faculty for this.

Other comments:

• Made the link with the community college market now need to expand to K-12

3. What do you see as the advantages of Ph.D.s as secondary school science and mathematics teachers?

Other mentions: can serve as role models, Ph.D.s want to teach at some point during their career; K-12 will let Ph.D.s find the right teaching venue for themselves, and can facilitate research in classrooms.

4. What do you see as the disadvantages of Ph.D.s as secondary school science and mathematics teachers?

Other mentions included: requires a particular type of personality to fit into the secondary schools; teachers and administrators may be nervous or suspicious of the Ph.D.; unionized school districts; no follow-up from universities, mentoring, or career development; not a prestigious career; Ph.D. has too much knowledge and doesn 't know where to start; pedagogy is geared to the adult learner, not youth; and K-12 labs are inadequate at best

5. What are the obstacles to attracting and retaining science and mathematics Ph.D.s as secondary school teachers?

Other obstacles that received mention included: research does not connect to the classroom; Ph.D.s have not been in a classroom in a long time; the school environment; tremendous time commitment to teaching (multiple periods a day with little down time); professors do not support teaching—they want their students to be just like them; Ph.D.s need pedagogical training for teaching without extending time to degree; few resources and opportunities at the school district level; education (teaching) is at the bottom of the totem pole in terms of prestige; Ph.D.s must be invited in and given a chance to make a difference; need an opportunity to stay in research, be recognized by peers and be in touch with a university; lack of collegiality; school district needs are generally unappealing to Ph. Ds – in rural areas or inner cities; education courses are terrible; and alternative certification is not discussed in universities.

6. What arrangements have been or could be implemented by graduate schools that would facilitate the transition of science and mathematics Ph.D.s to secondary school teaching?

Other arrangements mentioned by respondents included:

• Involve graduate students in an existing program that links science faculty with teachers and experienced teachers from high schools.*

• Provide workshops and seminars on alternative careers and including teaching at the secondary school level in these events.*

• Bring back alumni Ph.D.s in science and math who are teaching to present at the alternative careers workshops.

• Provide a loan deferment and loan repayment program when a Ph.D. teaches.

• Shorten the graduate degree program time and decrease time for postdoctorate studies.

• Provide supervised teaching, credentialing, and 2 year postdoctorate as part of a package.

• Universities should transform Schools of Education or bypass them altogether as they are not meeting the needs.

• Establish two tracks—traditional Ph.D. and Ph.D. teaching track; the latter should not end up with a pejorative connotation.

• Have students serve as an apprentice teacher in the classroom; instead of having students complete their TA at the university.

• Urge bachelor's prepared teachers returning for a degree to obtain a content area degree, not one in education.

• Enhance applied science and math departments.*

• Consider a master's degree as an intermediate step (for those who might otherwise stop at a BA).*

• Offer an MA in applied math.*

(Note: Items with the asterisk (*) are those efforts currently implemented or in process at the universities included in the study.)

7. Are any of these currently available? Which would you be willing to implement?

   • Yes – four.

   • Probably Not – one.

Rationales for why a university would not be likely to implement certain programs/efforts are degree pressures, faculty time required, funding for degree, American students are in competition with foreign students and teaching will increase the gap, and an overall sense that it “wouldn't work.”

In addition to the astericked items in question #6 other thoughts offered by respondents on other programs included:

• The science department at our university led the charge to get the university involved with teaching and education issues.

• Expand public school involvement with existing programs.

• Tried to develop a joint credentialing program with another university but it was not funded.

• Faculty, post-docs, and graduate students all volunteer in schools to work with teachers. Program will expand to student-focused activities.

• Offer an MS in science to existing biology teachers.

• NSF should offer funding to science students to work in K-12.

8. What incentives or special arrangements have been or could be implemented by school systems to attract science and mathematics Ph.D.s to secondary school teaching?

Respondents offered a range of ideas related to incentives or arrangements that schools could implement to attract Ph.D.s to secondary school teaching. These included the following:

• Provide alternative routes to certification.

• Provide summer immersion programs (introduction to teaching, similar to a Berlitz course).

• Provide mentors for teachers in schools.

• Waiver the school curriculum so the specialist can teach in his area of expertise.

• Provide teaching internships.

• School systems should provide opportunities and funding for graduate students to be involved.

• Provide fast track credentialing as part of the graduate program.

• Offer career ladders.

• Emphasize AP and honors courses.

• Provide computer equipment to teachers and ensure they have Internet access.

• Have a better evaluation system.

• Better salaries.

• Provide opportunities for the individual to have an active, scholarly life.

• Provide a budget for student field trips.

• Restructure the school day so there are expanded class times a couple of times a week rather than 5 days of 50 minute periods.

• Concentrate all Ph.D.s in magnet schools (so they are all peers).

• Recruit graduate students from universities for teaching.

• Do not place new teachers into the worst environments in the schools.

9. Are any of these currently available? Which of these could additionally be implemented by states, school districts, or schools?

Other ideas offered by respondents (that are currently in existence) include: the Preparing Future Faculty program (national program) that links prominent universities' graduate students with small colleges and community colleges to share facilities and knowledge. The respondents indicated this program could be expanded to high schools. Another university was assisting a school district in developing a health sciences curriculum, funded by the NSF. In one state, a few public and private schools systems had modified the school schedule to allow for longer class periods fewer days a week.

Additional ideas mentioned by respondents included involving the National Endowment for the Humanities in education; examining once again the issue of a master's degree as a “valid” and terminal degree; and experimenting with an on-line AP program where a cadre of Ph.D.s develop internet-based courses and operates the program (using e-mail) -- school districts would pay on a per-student basis. One respondent indicated that it is a self-perpetuating cycle; only the school districts that offer 4 years of science and math generate an interest in students in continuing these studies in college. Because it is not universally available all four years in schools, it becomes the domain of the “nerds” from districts that offered the courses.

10. Science and Mathematics Ph.D.s as Teachers

Respondents working at the district or high school level (high school principals, magnet principals, and superintendents) were less likely than state policymakers or graduate school deans to see science and mathematics Ph.D.s as a source of quality secondary school teachers. When queried as to whether science and mathematics Ph.D.s were a source of quality secondary school teachers, respondents answered:

• high school principals: No

• magnet school principals: Maybe

• school superintendents: Maybe

• state policymakers: Yes

• graduate deans: Yes

11. Benefits Ph.D.s May Bring to Secondary School Teaching

    • Half of all respondents saw a Ph.D.s content knowledge as a strength.

    • Magnet and high school principals saw Ph.D.s as a source for enhancing their schools' credibility and standing, such as with accreditation bodies or in generating needed grant funds.

12. Obstacles to Using Ph.D.s in Secondary School Teaching

    • All but one respondent indicated salary was an obstacle to recruiting Ph.D.s to secondary school teaching.

    • High school and magnet school principals saw Ph.D.s as overspecialized and overprepared for teaching secondary school students.

    • High school principals, magnet school principals, and superintendents were more likely than state policymakers or graduate deans to say Ph.D.s needed educational coursework in order to teach.

13. Graduate School Initiatives

When queried about the types of arrangements graduate schools could implement to facilitate the transition of science and mathematics Ph.D.s to secondary school teaching, respondents typically indicated colleges and universities should offer educational coursework during graduate school and provide opportunities for classroom experience.

• At least one individual within each respondent group suggested Ph.D.s should be provided experience working in classrooms/schools during graduate school.

• At least one individual within all respondent groups (except magnet school principals) indicated Ph.D.s should take educational coursework while pursuing an advanced degree.

• Across respondent groups, interviewees expressed misgivings about whether graduate schools would be willing or able to implement these recommendations—the typical interviewee response was “maybe.”

14. Education Courses and Certification

    • The respondent category predicted certain opinions. For instance, high school and magnet school principals uniformly indicated Ph.D.s would not be able to teach without educational coursework. Individuals within respondent categories more distant from school operation (state policymakers and graduate deans) were less likely to believe educational coursework was necessary to teaching. When compared to principals and superintendents, state policy- makers and graduate deans were more likely to feel schools of education may not be preparing the highest quality level of teachers needed for science and mathematics.

    • Many respondents were not familiar with their state's alternative certification process and how alternative candidates are funded.

15. Other considerations

    • Reduced teaching loads for Ph.D.s was seen primarily as a funding issue and one that was not specific to Ph.D.s. A few individuals indicated teacher unions impacted the feasibility of this approach.

    • Although only one respondent made them, several comments are worthy of note. The comments are: (1) need role models and people of color to teach science and mathematics at the secondary school level (magnet school principal), (2) there is a need for scientific research at the high school level (magnet school principal), and (3) graduate schools could link with educational professional associations (state policymakers).